Great read!! For such a small story, it was still awesome. The end was a bit predictable, but made it no less great. Lovecraft has a way with description that no other writer I've read can touch.
Anyway, just a quick question about this story, is the castle that he comes upon the same castle he lives in and it's just that he was shut away in a section of the castle away from everyone else?
Also, completely weird how Lovecraft made him climb a tower that was higher than all the trees, yet when he got to the top, he was on ground level. Kinda confused me there, but I suppose it's just a part of the world of H.P. Lovecraft.
Also, completely unrelated, but I saw the topic on the Necronomicon(which yes, I know it really doesn't exist). But I was wondering, is it really Lovecraft who invented it? Because it's obviously become a big myth, and I was never aware of the origin of it. I knew Lovecraft spoke of it but I thought the origin of it predated Lovecraft. But mentions of the Necronomicon are everywhere nowadays. I just watched an episode of Buffy the Vampire Slayer the other day that mentioned the Necronomicon. So was Lovecraft the inventor of this "book"?
The Outsider
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there's a pretty comprehensive wikipedia article about the necronomicon.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Necronomicon
they attribute it directly to lovecraft in the opening paragraph. if he did invent it, it's definitely his most famous invention because it's been referenced many more times than cthulhu or anything else.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Necronomicon
they attribute it directly to lovecraft in the opening paragraph. if he did invent it, it's definitely his most famous invention because it's been referenced many more times than cthulhu or anything else.
Last edited by JJ Burke on Mon Jan 09, 2006 10:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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nortonew
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I've always thought that The Outsider was one of Lovecraft's strangest tales.
My take on the story is that the castle in which the outsider begins is actually his own personal version of life after death. The outsider is actually dead and his soul is dwelling in an "astral image" of the castle he lived in when he was alive. However, the outsider, for some reason that is not apparent, has no memories of his prior life.
His climb in the strange tower was a semi-symbolic, ascent from the land of the dead back into the material world. That is why the tower terminated in the outsider's grave. He basically climbed out of the afterlife, back into his corpse.
Once he had "climbed" back into the material plane, his soul entered his corpse and he became some manner of undead creature.
My take on the story is that the castle in which the outsider begins is actually his own personal version of life after death. The outsider is actually dead and his soul is dwelling in an "astral image" of the castle he lived in when he was alive. However, the outsider, for some reason that is not apparent, has no memories of his prior life.
His climb in the strange tower was a semi-symbolic, ascent from the land of the dead back into the material world. That is why the tower terminated in the outsider's grave. He basically climbed out of the afterlife, back into his corpse.
Once he had "climbed" back into the material plane, his soul entered his corpse and he became some manner of undead creature.
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nortonew
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From The Outsider, at the point where the outsider had just climbed throught the trapdoor after climbing up the tower:
"Believing I was now at prodigious height, far above the accursed branches of the wood, I dragged myself up from the floor and fumbled about for windows, that I might look for the first time upon the sky, and the moon and stars of which I had read. But on every hand I was disappointed; since all that I found were vast shelves of marble, bearing odious oblong boxes of disturbing size."
Stone shelves bearing oblong boxes = the inside of a mausoleum with stone niches holding coffins.
After having made his way up, out of that area:
"instead of a dizzying prospect of treetops seen from a lofty eminence, there stretched around me on the level through the grating nothing less than the solid ground, decked and diversified by marble slabs and columns, and overshadowed by an ancient stone church, whose ruined spire gleamed spectrally in the moonlight."
Marble slabs and columns surrounding a church would obviously be a graveyard.
Therefore, he must have emerged into a grave. Since he appeared to be some manner of undead, I would assume that it would have been his own grave.
Of course, I am not absolutely certain that my understanding of this story is exactly what Lovecraft intended, but this is the best I have been able to come up with.
"Believing I was now at prodigious height, far above the accursed branches of the wood, I dragged myself up from the floor and fumbled about for windows, that I might look for the first time upon the sky, and the moon and stars of which I had read. But on every hand I was disappointed; since all that I found were vast shelves of marble, bearing odious oblong boxes of disturbing size."
Stone shelves bearing oblong boxes = the inside of a mausoleum with stone niches holding coffins.
After having made his way up, out of that area:
"instead of a dizzying prospect of treetops seen from a lofty eminence, there stretched around me on the level through the grating nothing less than the solid ground, decked and diversified by marble slabs and columns, and overshadowed by an ancient stone church, whose ruined spire gleamed spectrally in the moonlight."
Marble slabs and columns surrounding a church would obviously be a graveyard.
Therefore, he must have emerged into a grave. Since he appeared to be some manner of undead, I would assume that it would have been his own grave.
Of course, I am not absolutely certain that my understanding of this story is exactly what Lovecraft intended, but this is the best I have been able to come up with.
Wow, that was very insightful. That never appeared to me. But it does seem to be the only possible explanation for how he could climb a tower like that and emerge on ground level. So obviously he was living in the underworld(afterlife) and emerged in a mausoleum(perhaps containing his own grave coffin?) and he was now in the real world. And the people were that saw him saw what we would call a "zombie". Though I also feel it would have been neat for the child to be alive instead of dead, and just be the most disgusting and morbid human being they had ever seen.
I read "In The Vault" earlier, and I just don't get any of that story. I'm gonna read it again sometime tonight or tomorrow, but I just don't get any horror or twists in it that Lovecraft is known for. All I understood from the story was that the undertaker got trapped in the vault, he finally chiselled his way out after falling. Also, something cut his Achilles tendons(did they cut his feet clean off, or just the tendons?). And then of course, Lovecraft always has a twist at the very end of a story, usually in the last sentence, and I just didn't get it this time I guess. Lovecraft is a hard writer to interpret.
I read "In The Vault" earlier, and I just don't get any of that story. I'm gonna read it again sometime tonight or tomorrow, but I just don't get any horror or twists in it that Lovecraft is known for. All I understood from the story was that the undertaker got trapped in the vault, he finally chiselled his way out after falling. Also, something cut his Achilles tendons(did they cut his feet clean off, or just the tendons?). And then of course, Lovecraft always has a twist at the very end of a story, usually in the last sentence, and I just didn't get it this time I guess. Lovecraft is a hard writer to interpret.
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nortonew
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Don't feel too bad if you don't completely grasp the meaning of every Lovecraft story. August Derleth has probably been Lovecraft's greatest supporter and booster, but Derleth was truly clueless in regards to much of Lovecraft's meaning and spirit.
In regards to "In the Vault", the whole explanation to the story is pretty much in the final three paragraphs. The grave digger, Birch, sustained grievous ankle wounds after having to stand atop a pile of coffins. Dr. Davis states that Asaph, (who is a corpse in one of the coffins), was a devilish man who always took revenge. Dr. Davis then states that Birch, the grave digger, (who suffered the ankle wounds), had cut off Asaph's feet so that Asaph would fit in the crappy coffin of old Mr. Fenner.
Basically, what happened is that Birch, the grave digger, despised Asaph, (apparently everyone did). So when Asaph died, Birch took Asaph out of Asaph's fancy coffin, and put the body of nice old Mr. Fenner in Asaphs's fancy coffin. Apparently Birch felt that Mr. Fenner deserved to be buried in a fancy coffin and Asaph deserved to be buried in a crappy coffin.
However, as Mr. Fenner was a short man, Fenner's coffin was too short for Asaph's body to fit into. So, Birch sawed off Asaph's feet so that he could stuff Asaph's body into Fenner's coffin.
Asaph was such a vindictive old cuss, that even though he was dead, he still took revenge on Birch. When Birch stood on the coffin containing Asaph, Asaph's body attacked Birch and attempted to cut off Birch's feet, just as Birch had cut off Asaph's feet. However, Asaph's corpse only managed to slice a short way into Birch's ankles before Birch managed to get through the transom.
I hope that this explanation helps you.
In regards to "In the Vault", the whole explanation to the story is pretty much in the final three paragraphs. The grave digger, Birch, sustained grievous ankle wounds after having to stand atop a pile of coffins. Dr. Davis states that Asaph, (who is a corpse in one of the coffins), was a devilish man who always took revenge. Dr. Davis then states that Birch, the grave digger, (who suffered the ankle wounds), had cut off Asaph's feet so that Asaph would fit in the crappy coffin of old Mr. Fenner.
Basically, what happened is that Birch, the grave digger, despised Asaph, (apparently everyone did). So when Asaph died, Birch took Asaph out of Asaph's fancy coffin, and put the body of nice old Mr. Fenner in Asaphs's fancy coffin. Apparently Birch felt that Mr. Fenner deserved to be buried in a fancy coffin and Asaph deserved to be buried in a crappy coffin.
However, as Mr. Fenner was a short man, Fenner's coffin was too short for Asaph's body to fit into. So, Birch sawed off Asaph's feet so that he could stuff Asaph's body into Fenner's coffin.
Asaph was such a vindictive old cuss, that even though he was dead, he still took revenge on Birch. When Birch stood on the coffin containing Asaph, Asaph's body attacked Birch and attempted to cut off Birch's feet, just as Birch had cut off Asaph's feet. However, Asaph's corpse only managed to slice a short way into Birch's ankles before Birch managed to get through the transom.
I hope that this explanation helps you.
Thank you very much. I just finished reading it my second time through and picked up all of that. Truly sorry for making you type all that out. I got it the second time around. I guess I just wasn't paying good enough attention the first time. Though I do have to disagree with Doctor Davis. I don't believe the gravedigger deserved it. Lovecraft made it very clear that Asaph was a terrible person(hey, he stepped on a puppy!!) and made it clear that Mr. Fenner was a good man. I do believe that Fenner deserved the better coffin and that Asaph deserved everything he got for as awful a person he was. But that's just my take.
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Jesus Prime
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nortonew wrote:I've always thought that The Outsider was one of Lovecraft's strangest tales.
My take on the story is that the castle in which the outsider begins is actually his own personal version of life after death. The outsider is actually dead and his soul is dwelling in an "astral image" of the castle he lived in when he was alive. However, the outsider, for some reason that is not apparent, has no memories of his prior life.
His climb in the strange tower was a semi-symbolic, ascent from the land of the dead back into the material world. That is why the tower terminated in the outsider's grave. He basically climbed out of the afterlife, back into his corpse.
Once he had "climbed" back into the material plane, his soul entered his corpse and he became some manner of undead creature.
Man, I hadn't even thought of it like that. Initially I didn't really like the story since the ending left me saying "Well DUH!" But once you put it like that... well, it places the story in a whole new light!
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Erich Zann
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Outsider Re
Personally, I've always felt this was a story of being the ultimate outcast from society, which Lovecraft himself felt rather poignantly, judging from his Selected Letters vol. 1 thru 5.Adrian wrote:I think it's pretty clear HPL depicted himself in that story or atleast his spiritual journey.
Also Lovecraft was a champion of writing stories which were slightly and intentionally inexplicable. That, he believed was the convincing element of supernatural horror which he lent to his stories. Though i must say he does not leave any clues unturned in most of his tales.
Outsider was another of the first of Lovecraft's stories I had read and (personally) feeling as an island lost in a sea of redundancy / herd mentality and mediocrity I relate to Lovecraft as a kindred spirit.
"Only freaks know all the answers" -west coast pop art experimental band
Outcasts unite! Uh... oh ya, that would be just another herd, on second thought keep yourself cut off from the rest of the world you'll produce better art.
"I saw no city spread below, and no friendly lights gleaming from remembered streets, but only the blackness of space illimitable; unimagined space alive with motion and music, and having no semblance of anything on earth."
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The Lurking Fear
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--my take on Into The VaultAcooljt wrote: I do believe that Fenner deserved the better coffin and that Asaph deserved everything he got for as awful a person he was. But that's just my take.
If somebody cut off my feet and switched me into another coffin I would be pretty pissed off, The Undertaker deserved getting his ankles nearly cut off. He was careless with his job anyway.
I just thought of something, The Undertaker thought he put Fenner's coffin on top of the stack so it wouldn't fall through right? If Fenner's coffin was so much better it looks to me like he would've know he had the wrong casket on top, especially since Asaph's was so crappy.
Great stories, great thread, great insight from everyone!
Fear is always lurking..
I feel the outsider is a tale about social difficulty. The knowedge of people and their ways, but a world of distance between you and them. A near impossilbe struggle to put yourself in the company of others. The terrifying hurt felt by social rejection. Finally the joy felt by finding your own place in the cosmos, the place that you belong.
Thats my take on this story anyway, and i for one have felt empathy to the outsider and his struggle.
Thats my take on this story anyway, and i for one have felt empathy to the outsider and his struggle.