Lovecraft Inside Mythos Stories

Adrian · Post by **Adrian** » Mon Jun 28, 2004 5:05 pm

A lot of Mythos authors have, especially after Lovecraft's death, included him in their stories as a distant protagonist of a sort. This shows that Lovecraft would not have liked it. And "The Outsider & Others" are used as a sort of an ominous volume of hidden truths and facts.
Quite fascinating, in my opinion

Is it just me or does it seem that after HPL moved six feet under all the other followers of Mythos blew the boundries and were sort of free to experiment rather boldly with the Mythos, even making Lovecraft himself a semi-fictional character?

Post by **Aleister** » Mon Jun 28, 2004 5:52 pm

I was wondering about something like this today. It is hard to say what is truely part of the 'Cthulhu Mythos'. (I use that phrase knowing that Lovecraft himself never used it, but it has came to mean such in general terms - others can call it the 'Lovecraft Mythos' if they wish.)

Can a story really be called a Mythos story if it simply includes Lovecraft, or Cthulhu, or Dagon, or anything of the sort?

I think it goes much deeper than that. As far as experimenting with the boundries of Lovecraftian fiction, writers are perfectly free to do what they want. There are no literary rules regarding mythos-type tales (although some Lovecraft purists may disagree).

I think when it comes down to it, it is up to the reader to decide what they consider to be included in the Mythos. Of course that leaves a lot to be debated when it comes to the details of various entities or characters, but it is not a science. Even the science in Lovecraft's work was much more than a mere science

Even the 'worst' lovecraft based fiction still helps keep alive the originals to some degree. It helps the world remember him. Surely one would not read a random story with Lovecraftian elements and assume Lovecraft's work itself was of such quality. For someone to believe that, they would probably not even know of Lovecraft, in which case they would not even be coming to that conclusion.

Anyway.. maybe I went past the point... :hplghost:

Adrian · Post by **Adrian** » Mon Jun 28, 2004 6:37 pm

You didn't miss it, and if, then by a little. I meant that what the author helped to create when he was alive included himself when he became deceased.
I'll take the label 'Lovecraft purist' everyday btw.
And to define whats a Mythos story then loosely it can be said that its everything except what Lovecraft wrote. He wrote lovecraftian, he did not intentionally or knowingly start the tidal wave in horror literature. But yeah, Cthulhu & Co do not make a Mythos story. As a matter of fact, in reality the more I have read Mythos fics, then the more I see Cthulhu, Azagthoth or Nyarlathotep in it the more I begin to resent the story. Its like spoonfeeding the idea of the author that Mythos names = Mythos fic.
Lovecraftian Mythos is all about the damn cosmic and cold nothingess, the realization that no-one cares about Man and we are here by chance and are evolving in nowhere particular. Understanding and feeling that very tasty fear can lead to be a first-class cosmophobiac like HPL himself.
And Ive gone off on a rant again

Post by **Aleister** » Mon Jun 28, 2004 6:46 pm

I took your original response as meaning basically that Lovecraft would probably not of approved in this expansion of his works.

Or did you mean the contrary ?

idolcrash · Post by **idolcrash** » Mon Jun 28, 2004 8:05 pm

I've noticed this even in Derleth's work, although he used Lovecraft's stories (and those magazines that published them) in his work and not Lovecraft himself.

Adrian · Post by **Adrian** » Tue Jun 29, 2004 10:13 am

Aleister wrote:I took your original response as meaning basically that Lovecraft would probably not of approved in this expansion of his works.

Or did you mean the contrary ?

Both, actually - it was just a thought and wanted to hear others thoughts about it. So anyway this topic is fortunately picking up the pace. But on the expansion part, I think that he wouldnt of approved it. But using HPL in the Mythos as a character adds the murkiness and fogs the boundries between fact & fiction: newcomers should be very confused to read those sort of stories. If they would read Derleth's work, that has Lovecraft in in as a protagonist, and afterwards they would read Lovecrafts own stories, they could even (well, you'd have to be pretty dumb for that) think that it really happened because this fellow Lovecraft mentioned in Derleth's 'allegidly fictional story', was alive and a writer too.
Sort of.

E.A. Lovecraft · Post by **E.A. Lovecraft** » Mon Aug 16, 2004 11:40 pm

Adrian wrote:But yeah, Cthulhu & Co do not make a Mythos story. As a matter of fact, in reality the more I have read Mythos fics, then the more I see Cthulhu, Azagthoth or Nyarlathotep in it the more I begin to resent the story. Its like spoonfeeding the idea of the author that Mythos names = Mythos fic.

I think the inclusion of Cthulhu & Co. does make a tale mythos fic. It might not be Lovecraftean, it might not be original, and chances are, it's not going to be good, but the inclusion of certain otherworldly beings certainly places it into the mythos.

I do understand the resentment born of old mythos icons in new tales. Seems like 99% of "mythos authors" mistakenly believe that namedropping is a suitable substitute for originality, creativity, and quality.