Questions on H.P. Lovecraft

ximbx · Post by **ximbx** » Mon May 26, 2008 10:03 pm

I did some reading and research on H.P. Lovecraft but I still can't seem to find out if HPL was really racist, or sexist; or if it was just the thinking during that time period. Some critics say that he was racist against blacks and other races but in his stories like "The case of Charles Dexter Ward" he's writes pretty nice things about other races.

Also it would be so helpful to get more of an opinion on him and his stories.

Thanks

JJ Burke · Post by **JJ Burke** » Tue May 27, 2008 12:26 am

we covered a lot of this issue in this thread

ximbx · Post by **ximbx** » Tue May 27, 2008 8:00 am

thanks

Ian Whateley · Post by **Ian Whateley** » Wed Jun 18, 2008 3:43 pm

"Radiates, vegetables, monstrosities, star spawn - whatever they had been, they were men! "
-Lovecraft in "At the Mountains of Madness"

I'd call that pretty tolerant. Not the least bit racist.

miz redavni · Post by **miz redavni** » Wed Jun 18, 2008 5:35 pm

yes he was...... read anything about him and his wifes relationship..... read up on the fact that H.P.L supported the nazi's

here is everything you should read about his life

Ian Whateley · Post by **Ian Whateley** » Wed Jun 18, 2008 6:34 pm

Interesting, although sourceless...
and, according to it, he stopped supporting the Nazis when he learned of the Holocaust. Plus, he would have liked any group which was lead by an amoral European dreamer (in the normal, not Lovecraftian sense) quester-after-power, like Randolph Carter.

Eternities End · Post by **Eternities End** » Wed Jun 18, 2008 8:13 pm

miz redavni wrote:yes he was...... read anything about him and his wifes relationship..... read up on the fact that H.P.L supported the nazi's

here is everything you should read about his life

By todays standards its pretty easy to throw him into the racist category, but he was a product of his time, a racist post American/Spanish war, pride filled supremacist America, lots of people were racists and even more people supported Hitler (it hadn't started killing jews until WW2). Its easy to call him a racist, its far more difficult to actual accept the fact that everyone back then was a bloody racist.

Ian Whateley · Post by **Ian Whateley** » Wed Jun 18, 2008 11:09 pm

To me, Lovecraft seems to be alternately vehement and tolerant. I'm not going to deny that "The Street" and "The Horror at Red Hook" both foam at the mouth with xenophobia. But ATMOM and Unknown Kadath seem to imply greater tolerance. And the world after the rise of Cthulhu as described by Castro seems pretty colorblind.

My theory is that, given his pretty difficult life, Lovecraft often felt extremely bitter and hateful. At his time, racism and sexism were certainly ways to relieve that, although he also enjoyed bashing the human race as a whole, and even occasionally going after Europeans (and you can't fault him for frequently enjoying the idea of the heroic European; it is fun for Europeans), such as the Martenses.

aycorn · Post by **aycorn** » Thu Jun 19, 2008 4:20 pm

Eternities End wrote:
miz redavni wrote:yes he was...... read anything about him and his wifes relationship..... read up on the fact that H.P.L supported the nazi's

here is everything you should read about his life
By todays standards its pretty easy to throw him into the racist category, but he was a product of his time, a racist post American/Spanish war, pride filled supremacist America, lots of people were racists and even more people supported Hitler (it hadn't started killing jews until WW2). Its easy to call him a racist, its far more difficult to actual accept the fact that everyone back then was a bloody racist.

While this is true, it doesn't cover the fact that Sonia Greene remembers him flying into near-rages when in the presence of those he considered "unwashed foreigners." Sadly, he seems to have been pretty extreme even by the standards of the time.

miz redavni · Post by **miz redavni** » Thu Jun 19, 2008 5:43 pm

aycorn wrote:
Eternities End wrote:
miz redavni wrote:yes he was...... read anything about him and his wifes relationship..... read up on the fact that H.P.L supported the nazi's

here is everything you should read about his life
By todays standards its pretty easy to throw him into the racist category, but he was a product of his time, a racist post American/Spanish war, pride filled supremacist America, lots of people were racists and even more people supported Hitler (it hadn't started killing jews until WW2). Its easy to call him a racist, its far more difficult to actual accept the fact that everyone back then was a bloody racist.
While this is true, it doesn't cover the fact that Sonia Greene remembers him flying into near-rages when in the presence of those he considered "unwashed foreigners." Sadly, he seems to have been pretty extreme even by the standards of the time.

agreed

TheEdge · Post by **TheEdge** » Fri Jun 20, 2008 6:59 am

I think he was a racist but who cares everyone was a xenophobic raving, frothing of the mouth bigot back then. Its just human nature, it was a different time. I mean I know stories in queens where the white section used to hide baseball bats under billboards so just incase the blacks came into their neighborhood they would chase them out. Now with tolerance education and more integration it has subsided a little but it will still be there. Its just another animal instinct Humans have to learn to repress.

miz redavni · Post by **miz redavni** » Fri Jun 20, 2008 5:39 pm

i have but one thing to say to you you arcade fighter character.......

Hodgson · Post by **Hodgson** » Fri Jun 27, 2008 7:28 am

TheEdge wrote:I think he was a racist but who cares everyone was a xenophobic raving, frothing of the mouth bigot back then.

Not at all. For example, Jacques Barzun published Race: a Study in Modern Superstition in 1937, the year that Lovecraft died.

It's true that race was not treated as sensitively as it is now, but racism was not omniprevalent.

For the rest, I think a consistent reading of Lovecraft's stories and letters will find his racism, so-called, actuated by matters of class. "Cool Air" illustrates something of what I mean by that. People from other countries and races do not offend him nearly as much as a certain kind of underclass.

His life would seem to bear this out. In his relations with those he liked, he did not card for race: he did not reject the friendship of Samuel Loveman or Sonia Greene. This does not make HPL a saint, but it makes him somewhat different from the simplistic portrait often painted. And it makes him human.

Ian Whateley · Post by **Ian Whateley** » Sun Jun 29, 2008 4:19 pm

I read something somewhere, once (I'm great at citations
!), to the effect that Lovecraft, as a rule, was extremely courteous and friendly to individuals but vehemently hated humanity, and its subdivisions (races, organizations, etc.).

Eternities End · Post by **Eternities End** » Sun Jun 29, 2008 4:43 pm

I bet he went around asking people what their ethnic backgrounds were..."Thats a lovely coat your wearing ms. your eyes are quite lovely, where is your family from? GREECE! Bah, choke and die you orthodox skank!"