hpl: bigoted newt, or just misunderstood?

Eternities End · Post by **Eternities End** » Mon Feb 12, 2007 5:29 pm

So whats Cthulhu going to do for the working man?

Draconis · Post by **Draconis** » Mon Feb 12, 2007 6:09 pm

Cthulhu will point out that the working man's life (and everyone else's) really is terribly short and utterly pointless, something hitherto only suspected.

Eternities End · Post by **Eternities End** » Mon Feb 12, 2007 6:28 pm

Oh sure, you say that now!

Hodgson · Post by **Hodgson** » Mon Feb 12, 2007 9:07 pm

Draconis wrote:Cthulhu will point out that the working man's life (and everyone else's) really is terribly short and utterly pointless, something hitherto only suspected.

You lie. He'll pimp your ride and put a Mi-Go in every garage.

Rodr-Evil · Post by **Rodr-Evil** » Tue Feb 13, 2007 10:57 am

I had listened about the racism of Lovecraft, which was common in this epoch, but seriously who cares? I hate rasicm but HPL is Lord HPL!

krakenten · Post by **krakenten** » Tue Feb 13, 2007 11:19 am

Again, the past is past, George Washington kept slaves and so did Thomas Jefferson, Ben Franklin was a lecher, the list goes on.
What precisely does anyone propose to do about it?
Ban the writings of anyone not PC enough?
Read "1984" and see where that leads us?

Hodgson · Post by **Hodgson** » Tue Feb 13, 2007 11:46 am

krakenten wrote:What precisely does anyone propose to do about it?

Pimp everyone's ride and put a Mi-go in every garage!

E.A. Lovecraft · Post by **E.A. Lovecraft** » Tue Feb 13, 2007 12:02 pm

OK, I'm bad at holding secrets. Some of us are actually members of the sinister Anti-Lovecraft League, planted here as part of a nefarious, world-wide plot to corrupt fans. As you've indicated many times, no good can ever come from discussing historical figures in a manner other than blind worship.

BTW, the founding fathers are next.

JJ Burke · Post by **JJ Burke** » Tue Feb 13, 2007 1:02 pm

oh sure, what's next? ben franklin was fat, so he's a bad role model for our obese american kids.

you nay-sayers and your wagging fingers.. is nothing sacred

krakenten · Post by **krakenten** » Tue Feb 13, 2007 1:39 pm

Ok, now I'm irked.
I don't worship Lovecraft, in fact, I really don't think that he was a great writer.
Lovecraft was a pioneer in a new way of looking at supernatural fiction, with some very cleaver use of devices to add a certain air of reality to his work.
Others have built on this.
But his personal flaws, examined half a century or more after his death have not a damn thing to do with his work.
I've often contemplated the power of Lovecraft's work, power he knew was there, but couldn't quite bring under his control, and thought of how frustrated he must have been.
If he was a racist, and he was indeed inclined to wield the tar brush freely, it's too late to send him to sensitivity training, now.
This endless hammering on Lovecraft's personal flaws has nothing to do with his work.
Lovecraft was a master of mood-he couldn't write characters, his dialogue was mediocre at best, his plots often ludicrous, but he could write mood like crazy.
He was like a prize fighter who has a bad right hand, and nothing else-it's pretty sad watching him fight, then, wham, and the other guy is on the canvas hearing birdies.
No one has ever really gotten very far with the idea of cosmic dread-Derleath shied aeway and retreated from it, nobody has ever taken it up successfully.
Ligotti and King have approached it.
It's only recently that I've gained some understanding of what Lovecraft was getting at.
It has not a single thing to do with human racial affairs.
It is more a profession that humanity is insignificant, a mere accidental occupant of a universe with larger concerns and greater interests than people.
And that's really scary!

JJ Burke · Post by **JJ Burke** » Tue Feb 13, 2007 2:26 pm

yeah, see, in that sense i don't think his racism was really valid to himself, or at least to the fundamental premise of his writing. what difference is there between a darkie and a cracker when cthulhu is rolling over the countryside like a snot tsunami? how do you tell a gentleman from a criminal when they're both being mashed in the jaws of a cosmic wood chipper?

either hpl's racism was hypocritical, or his writing was disingenuous and we're suckers who fell for it. i prefer to think his stories are the most true thing about him, and the racism in his personality was just an irrelevant feature of the flimsy, mundane microcosm he wanted to escape.

i agree with krak that there's no point criticizing the real-world character of a dead author of fiction.

i agree with e.a. that taking the role of defense counsel in such a case is equally pointless.

but i come here to see what people have to say, and telling people not to say it is probably the pointlessest of all

Draconis · Post by **Draconis** » Tue Feb 13, 2007 3:08 pm

snot tsunami

Love the imagery! :D

Hodgson · Post by **Hodgson** » Tue Feb 13, 2007 3:10 pm

JJ Burke wrote:pointlessest

Under arrest.

Draconis · Post by **Draconis** » Tue Feb 13, 2007 3:12 pm

I have to agree with Mr. Burke here. I'd be inclined to say that HPL was not so much a racist as not-an-idealist. If he had been particularly concerned with the moral fate of humanity then he might well have been against the racism that was the norm back then - but since that wasn't what he was interested in, he didn't think to do anything about it. I suspect that the vast majority of us are guilty of this to some degree as regards other subjects.

Eternities End · Post by **Eternities End** » Tue Feb 13, 2007 4:24 pm

Seriously who really cares if Lovecraft was a bit racist, everyone was a bloody racist in 1920's New England, as long as Lovecraft wasn't a member of the KKK or someshit like that, who really cares?