King Diamond

Post by **Aleister** » Mon Oct 17, 2005 4:18 pm

Compared to some black metal bands who have almost zero melody, and vocals that rarely if ever have any variation, and drums that sound like someone is firing a machine gun?

Don't get me wrong.. I like a wide range of bands, but I am a big fan of ones that are more symphonic and actually put some thought into the songs.

Could it be instead that you just personally do not like their music?

Jesus Prime · Post by **Jesus Prime** » Mon Oct 17, 2005 4:22 pm

Machine gun drums are GOOD. Why do you think I like Megadeth so much?
And ALL black metal is laughable, but Cradle of Filth are the most famous exponent of the genre, and so bear the brunt of the flak. Thrash metal, now there's where it's at.

Post by **Aleister** » Mon Oct 17, 2005 4:32 pm

We will have to agree to disagree

I think the reason I like black metal so much is because I like the creepy sounding keyboards.. the interesting vocals.. the same things you seem to dislike.

Much the same reason I like Therion, Tristania, etc.. and other bands of those types.. I really love a nice mixing of metal and operatic to classical.

That does not mean that I like any band that tries to mix metal and classical.. a horrible example being a particular Metallica album. But then again, I really dislike Metallica and do not really consider them metal, but that is a subject for another topic

Lagwolf · Post by **Lagwolf** » Tue Oct 18, 2005 5:01 am

And don't forget Opeth. The new one is particularily impressive. Course there last three have been that way so no surprise there.

Post by **Aleister** » Tue Oct 18, 2005 12:34 pm

Funny you should mention them.. The other day I found a CD I had been given, which I thought I lost..

It contained: Blackwater Park, Deliverance, Morningrise, My Arms Your Hearse, Orchid, and Still Life. I had not even listened to them all before I misplaced it

Rodr-Evil · Post by **Rodr-Evil** » Tue Oct 18, 2005 1:13 pm

Aleister wrote:Rodr-Evil: First off, welcome to the forum

Everyone is entitled to their opinions of course, but how exactly are they clowns of metal? I am curious.

Hey thanks man, you are the webmaster or something? congratulations for the site, is really cool.

Well COF [for me] are really crap, because they're a visual band, the music itself is not the most important thing to this band, and this is pointless.

Rodr-Evil · Post by **Rodr-Evil** » Tue Oct 18, 2005 1:15 pm

Jesus Prime wrote: And ALL black metal is laughable

Are you sure? what about old Celtic Frost, Mercyful Fate or Possessed? That is real BM.

Jesus Prime · Post by **Jesus Prime** » Tue Oct 18, 2005 4:31 pm

Merciful Fate are the sole exception to the rule. And I'd hesitate to call them black metal.
And Al, two more things - I like keyboards as much as the next man, and interesting vocals - do yourself a huge favour and buy either (or both) Faith No More's "Angel Dust", or Mr Bungle's first album (I forget the name of it, the first major label one).
And two - Metallica WERE metal. Real metal. Up to and including "...And Justice For All" - which, again, you should treat yourself to.

Samhain · Post by **Samhain** » Sat Feb 18, 2006 6:24 pm

First and foremost, King Diamond is a true Metal God, I love pretty much anything he's ever done.

Now that I've gotten that out of the way, I think that Cradle was quite good at first. Recordings such as "The Principle of Evil Made Flesh" and "Vempire" are quite good, and original. I hated "Dusk and Her Embrace", a totaly incoherant mess of a cd. "Cruelty and the Beast" as a concept album has it's moments, but after that they definitely went downhill. Machine gun drumming is an understatement however, Nick Barkers drumming in COF was unbelievable, it's what helped carry the band IMHO. I dare say anything by Megadeth drumwise doesnt even approach comparable, in either speed or execution.

What was great about them was that they werent so much the run of the mill "Satan Til You Drop" type redundant "black metal". They were more a sort of dark paganism-themed extreme metal group, acting as vassals of various black goddesses and what have you.

It's about the total destruction of mankind and civilization, and the re-emergence of a new Dark Age, and a sort of romance with long-forgotten black goddesses and the vampiric and incorporeal spirits. Early recordings such as "The Principle of Evil Made Flesh", "The Black Goddess Rises" and "The Forest Whispers My Name" are well written, brutally heavy, and hauntingly beautiful songs that Ive never heard anyone else duplicate. Not even them, unfortunately..

"The Principle of Evil Made Flesh" excerpt-

"From the primeval mass
Let precious chaos vent
Sacred flesh drenched in fornication
Beloved of Set
May the winds gather Her together
From the secrets of men
After thousands of years of terrifying silence
She comes again.."

"The abolition of the yeshua begins..."

"Shattered are the icons of the worthless
The Goddess scorned is a Valkyrie born
Scattered are the wings of the virulent holy
Leave their husks to be the prey of vultures and dogs"

"World without end
Cherish the lissome wants of pernicious evil
Dusk in Her eyes
Torn bloody weeping skies
Darkness will hasten to devour
And the weak shall flee or die..."

or
"Black Goddess Rises"

"Crush their unworthy idols
No church shall bar our path
Seductive evil, drink your fill
Of the bleeding christ in your arms"

Thou art in my dreams
The darkness in my eyes
The rapture in their screams
Black Goddess arise!"

Dani spoken-
"Nothing will keep us apart
We could kill them all
If our desire tore free
Our union is one, sweet, sinful Eve."

slow melodic-
"And the night draws in beside her
As we embrace the dark side by side
I pour my soul to those eyes full of fire
To harvest the seed ploughed inside her"

Female spoken-
"Archangel, snare the flesh
Suck dry the ebbing wound
Leave them lifeless and broken
My beloved..."

Dani spoken-
"Oh, how I craved for you
You so pure and other-worldly with your scent of Winter
Am I to bleed myself dry to see your delight?"

"And the fear retreats forever
Come to me... Black Goddess arise
When my secrets are buried in thine
Come to me... Black Goddess arise
Under seven stars we came together
Come to me... Black Goddess arise
To plot the new age's demise..."

The female sang/spoken parts kick in, its just good stuff, and it's non-typical when compared to the mess of extreme metal or BM clones all trying to gross everyone out at that time. Of course, if youre one of those types that dont want anything but straight out gruff dudes barking in the mic, you wont like the signature back-and-forth male/female interludes and such that differentiate early COF. Of course, Sara Jezebel Deva and the other COF whores are no Vibeke Sten (Tristania) or even Floor Janssen (After Forever), but that's a whole 'nuther convo altogether.

That said, theyve definitely went downhill after "Cruelty.." and have never recovered. Part of this being that Dani is like Danzig in a way, too damn arrogant for his own good, and quite willing to shit on those in his past who helped make him famous. Nick Barker is a great example, one of COF's greatest assets, gone. Also, Dani Filth used to shriek, but now he squeals and caterwauls like a little girl. Im sorry, I just cant do the squealing thing, it's absolutely horrible, his voice is fucked and he needs to retire it. Listen to the remakes of their songs on "Bitter Suites to Succubi" next to their originals, it's laughable.

And the art direction thing of the band, it's just lame. I was buying a cd yesterday (After Forever) at this local place that has all the latest stickers and stuff on one wall, and it had some COF "Experimental Sex Files" sticker, with some broad on an autopsy table over a cadaver and all that. Im just rolling my eyes and thinking "Of course", you know, it's just ridiculous, anything to shock at this point. Part of the allure with them in the beginning was that they werent just like any other shock act, they were foul-mouthed and outspoken against christianity all that, but they werent grasping for straws. Like a previous poster has said, theyve become clowns now.

Uh sorry about the length, I'm the type of person that types fast and bangs out long posts (especially music and film) and dont realize Ive got a thousand words til it's too late

Samhain · Post by **Samhain** » Sun Feb 19, 2006 4:32 am

Also, if youre looking for the symphonic/gothic type of keyboard-laden, male/female and differing death/clean vocals, double-bass thundering type stuff (of which I myself love) then here's some suggestions.
Youre looking for something different, namely classical and operatic metal, and I can totally relate.

Sirenia-"At Sixes and Sevens" - You already know about Tristania, but have you tried out Sirenia? Morten Veland left Tristania after "Beyond the Veil", and started his own thing, Sirenia. "At Sixes and Sevens" is a great cd, but I havent heard "an elixir for existence" yet so I dont know how that one is.

Trail of Tears-"Profoundemonium" -Tristania's "world of glass" saw a guest male singer since Veland left, Ronny Thornston of Trail of Tears. I went and picked up "Profoundemonium" by them and was totally blown away. I dare say they are heavier than Tristania, with more of the regular tempo singing with fast, humming, guitar contrast. Total keyboard and double bass thunder, total operatic female vox at times, totally badass cd.

After Forever-"Prison of Desire" This one has a bit less of the male vocals on it, it's more a female lead, Floor Janssen. She has a unique low-fi tonal quality here, where she almost yells at times, mixed with her going operatic. This is their first cd, so she is like Liv Kristine used to be, classically untrained, so shes a bit rough on the high notes at times, but I like it because it gives it a weird sense of emotion. This is kickass keyboard and crunchy guitar metal rounded out with double bass, with enough beauty/beast components to keep me coming back.

Theatre of Tragedy-"Velvet Darkness They Fear" - Some say this band is the original "gothic metal" keyboard-laden beauty/beast band, and it's pretty much that. This is definitive gothic metal. Awesome grunting death w/ so-so early pretty Liv Kristene vox, but the double bass is timed right and the guitar as freakin cool, with more thees, thys, and thous than a King James bible. Nice eerie goth keyboards, and even a long Vincent Price sample will have you thinking you just walked thru a cobweb in some dank old forgotten castle. Great stuff, highly reccomended for Cradle fans who are into the old drama, but stick with the original "Theatre f Tragedy" cd and this one, they went electronic after them and it sucks

Bal Sagoth-"Atlantic Ascendant" Really any of theirs is good, but it's full-on symphonic "battle metal" I guess youd call it. No gothic elements here, this is total speed/symphonic kings-leading-their-warriors-into-battle stuff. They also deal with the Lovecraftian stuff here and there with such songs as "the lost cities of antarctica" and such. Death screams and clean male spoken vocals are the order of the day here, total keyboard fest as well, this is Wagnerian keyboarding if there ever was or could be such a thing.

You already know about Therion, so I wont go into them, but I absolutely love them, spanning from black metal to total symphonic, a Therion collection will keep one in music for a long time. Theli being my favorite.

If you want totally keyboard and choral-heavy doom metal, I cannot recommend My Dying Brides "The Dreadful Hours" enough. Im tellin ya tho, this is total utter doom, and makes "Widow's Weeds" by Tristania look cheery by comparison. Im just getting into doom metal myself, and My Dying Bride is totally atmospheric, mournful guitars rounded out at times by dual slightly out of time and tune high and low guitars. Also, they get going with some killer double bass thunder. This shit is like if Leonard Cohen and Black Sabbath got together did a funeral march at times, I love it.